Post by jhoke13 on Feb 11, 2011 16:58:00 GMT -5
*WIP*
I. Those sweet, supple... back-flips
So you've decided you want to pick someone other than Soma.
Val-spamming through the levels has started to get old or you don't play Soma because he "takes no skill to play". You only have enough patience to max out one more character. So...
Who do you choose?
You could go with Alucard but he's just Soma light. You could go with Jonathan but you can find better ways to waste your time. You could pay for the privilege of grinding and pick up one of the DLC characters but you're broke. That leaves one other character for you to choose...
Soma
Seriously though, I've had plenty of experience with grinding. I have maxed out all of the weapons that provide stats for each of the whip users (I still have some retros to do but I'm in no hurry with those), I've maxed out Fuma as well and I have both Maria and Yoko nearly maxed so I know how long and tedious the process of grinding these subs/spells can be.
On to the topic at hand:
In my opinion the character that becomes the most rewarding and fun to play after maxing out is Shanoa and this is why:
Pros:
- Shanoa is one of the most well rounded characters in the game. Her weapon glyphs and spells are useful in many situations and she is adept at both close range and distance fighting. She allows for several different setups since she can equip both armor and female exclusive items; she can be a melee based character or a pure caster or a mixture of the two. She is very adaptable and can be built to suit any playstyle.
- Magnes points generally allow her to take the quickest and/or safest route through the level. The bosses on chapters 3, 5, and 9 also have Magnes points nearby that can be used to her advantage.
- Both Acerbatus and Globus deal tremendous damage when they are maxed out; they also happen to be very easy to level up do to their multi-hit nature. Acerbatus is has a wide hit-box and is great when up close and can one-shot many lesser enemies. If the enemy manages to survive the attack somehow, it may end up with the cursed status which will reduce its attack power. Globus is better suited for corridors and rooms where it can bounce around to maximize its damage output. Fill the room with this spell but try not to blind everyone with it.
- Lightning
. Get used to hearing Shanoa scream that over and over again because you should be using Fulgur on everything that isn't resistant to it. This spell is so handy that I don't have room to list all of its uses. Just know that it's one of the best fire-and-forget spells in the game; its auto-tracking, has high-damage output, hits multiple times and it comes out very fast with good range. This spell should be used as a preemptive strike against any enemy that is out of range of Acerbatus.
- Much of Shanoa's strength lies in her versatility. She has the tools to manage anything that she runs up against. Her hand-to-hand weapons are both varied and unique because she can use them for both close range and distance combat. She is also unique in that her back-dash does not need to be canceled by pressing down to maintain a rapid series of attacks. You may still want to press down to control the distance you move backwards when you are back-dash cancelling.
- She isn't limited by the lack of a dive kick. All of the shenanigans you can pull of with it still apply to her. The only thing holding her back mobility wise, is the lack of a "Yorick" type maneuver (and to a lesser extent, R. Medusa) but the magnes points that are scattered throughout the levels make up for that a bit.
- She can equip Berserker Mail. This is very important and is the real reason that, IMO, she is the second best character in the game. Combine weapon/spell versatility, stage and character mobility, with general good play and Shanoa is only outclassed by Soma for overall usefulness and destructibility.
Cons:
- Really the only major thing that I can think of is that since Shanoa is a hybrid character,some of her more useful spells and weapon glyphs can be hard to obtain if you aren't a "lucky" person.
- Learning the right uses and situations for her attacks takes time but the same can be said for any character. The timing for back-dashing and back-dash canceling out of her weapon attacks can be tricky to learn.
In Summary:
I think that if you only choose one character to max out through grinding, you should choose Shanoa. I didn't use her very much at first but I still remember the first time I played with an extremely talented Shonoa player and I watched in admiration as she completely wrecked everything. Seeing how gracefully she destroyed the level prompted me to give her a try and I have loved her play-style ever since. This was even before Globus and Acerbatus came along! The addition of the DLC spells was just icing on the cake. Shanoa is a great character choice for anyone who likes having multiple options without sacrificing mobility or damage. She's the next best thing in this game.
II. A woman scorned
So you chose Shanoa. Now What?
There is another guide on the main page that will give you the details on many of the spells and weapons and how to find them, so I wont bother explaining the details here.
Which accessory do I use?
Assuming that you have two of each of these items:
Chaos Ring
Miser Ring (with enough gold to max them)
Appolonian/Artemisian Ring (or Sunstone/Moonstone)
Fools Tablet
How do you know which one to use and what are the benefits of each?
This subject is very debatable and a lot of the decisions are mostly based on your personal play style. I will do my best to explain how these items effect Shanoa and give my reasoning for using them.
Separating the girls from the ladies
Consider this:
Do you want to deal a lot of damage up front or do you want to deal more damage over time?
Now consider this:
Where do you spend most of your time? Playing the level or fighting the boss?
And finally, ask yourself this question:
Am I comfortable with using Berserker Mail?
All of these factors come into play when deciding on the items to use to maximize your setup. As I stated earlier, being able to use Berserker Mail is what really sets her apart from the other female casters. Equipping it is like adding dual Miser Rings to your chest spot that also boost the damage your spells do. Using Berserker Mail will also allow you more freedom with the accessories you choose.
I highly recommend that you get comfortable using it. I use Berserker Mail on every stage when I play solo but online I take it off until I'm satisfied with the connection and team. Lag in games can make you look stupid when you die; so can the more unsavory and reckless folks online.
As for the first two things I asked you to consider, the chapter you are playing will largely influence the answer. Playing online (especially with six player groups) will also vary these factors. When you are in a boss battle for example, having fast MP regen can be more beneficial at times and may actually allow you to do more damage over time, especially with the many multi-hit spells Shanoa has at her disposal.
Magic regen build vs pure stat build
This is a breakdown of the MP regen rates according to the Japanese Wiki (I will include the rates for non-Shanoa items as well for those of you who are curious about their rates):
http://dora_hd.wikiwiki.jp/?%CB%C9%B8%E6%C1%F5%C8%F7#e197a085
Sage Ring: 0.2/sec
Chaos Ring: 0.4/sec
Robe Decollete: 0.4/sec
Bishamon Raiment: 0.6/sec
Others:
Treant Soul (Maxed): 0.6/sec
Fuma Helm: 0.4/sec
Fuma Armor: 0.6/sec
All of these items stack.
To maximize your MP regen rate you would want to equip dual Chaos Ring, Bishamon Rainment and Robe Decollete. This will give Shanoa a bonus of 1.8/sec. This is more than enough to fuel your spells throughout the length stage and you'll be able to use them regularly for the boss battle.
If you are the kind of person who doesn't rely on your spells for the bulk of your damage, then Miser Rings are the item you will probably want to equip with Shanoa. The boost you receive with two of them (even without Berserker Mail) is more than enough to completely destroy most of the enemies throughout the levels in one or two hits (solo). You can also use Fool's Tablet for a large boost to many of your statsif you don't mind the poison effect. During boss battles you can still do consistent damage provided you have the right glyph equipped and you are adept at back-dashing out of her attacks.
A good balance of MP regen and damage output would include the Bishamon Rainment, Chaos Ring, and an Appolonian/Artemisian Ring (Berserker Mail or Robe Deco depending on what you like). You will have really good MP regen and the ability to kill most normal enemies without much trouble.
My setups are usually something like this:
A. Casual Friday
Weap1 - Lapiste (Sinestro Custos)
Weap2 - Lapiste (Dextro Custos)
Head - Holy Veil
Chest - Robe Decollete
Back - Bishamon Rainment
Legs - Sonic Boots
Acc1 - Chaos Ring
Acc2 - Appolonian/ Artemesian Ring
ATK - 70 (69)
INT - 25
HP Max - 325
MP Max - 128
MP Regen - +1.4/ Sec.
This is a well rounded setup that will give you great MP recovery speed while still being able to maintain good damage. You can add another App/Art Ring but I think that you'll find the MP boost from the Chaos Ring to be a little more useful for boss fights. The higher HP and MP will also allow you to take a few more hits and cast an extra spell or two.
B. Bitch on a rampage
Weap1 - Pneuma (Lapiste)
Weap2 - Pneuma (Lapiste)
Head - Holy Veil
Chest - Berserker Mail
Back - Bishamon Rainment
Legs - Sonic Boots
Acc1 - Fool's Tablet (Miser Ring)
Acc2 - Fool's Tablet (Miser Ring)
ATK - 40 (86) * + Hidden dmg modifier from Berzerker Mail*
INT - 29
HP Max - 285
MP Max - 108
MP Regen - +0.6/ Sec.
This setup is for those of you who want to eradicate everything with ease. Don't let the low attack value of Pneuma keep you from using them. Lapiste is stronger stat wise but, combined with Berzerker Mail and the weapon's multi-hit nature (especially with the combined wave attack), Pneuma is far more devastating on most bosses and enemies. Your low MPs and regen rate aren't such a big deal because everything should die with only one or two castings at most and anything left can be finished with your weapon. You can add Miser Rings in place of the Fool's tablet if you want to just go all out with your attacks; you will have to replace them if you are score running (Poison negates the no hit bonus). Practice dodging because with this setup you are dead on hit in almost all situations.
III. All of the right moves
If you are a player like me then you have a tendency to always want to be moving forward and maintaining momentum. Before the leaderboards were infested with exploiters, I used to do score runs. I liked trying to test myself and see how fast I could complete the levels with the best score possible. I managed to do pretty well and even managed to snag a few number one spots for a while. In doing this you begin to learn the fastest routes through the levels and how to deal with the enemies in the most efficient manner. With this in mind I want to address spell placement. By that I mean, how does one go about equipping their hunter skills and how the placement can influence the way you play? I'll also go over some other simple things you can do to improve your own runs both online and offline. Most of this stuff can be applied to all of the characters in some way.
One short hop away from victory
You have probably noticed by now that when you use a hunter skill or attack while grounded, in most cases your character will pause briefly while they execute the attack. If you want to maintain your forward momentum you need to get around this limitation and there is a very easy way to do this. You simply press the Jump button ever so briefly before executing your attack and you will perform a small hop off of the ground.
Being airborne while attacking with most weapons and/or hunter skills lowers or even eliminates the recovery time of the move. Practice doing short hopping so that you can always maintain your forward momentum while eliminating the enemies. Also, the moment you land from any jump (aside from long falls) you can make an additional attack. You can follow that with a back-dash and another attack to make a simple combo. With Shanoa specifically, you will want to practice performing a short hop and attacking with Weapon 1 and Weapon 2 before you touch the ground to maximize her effectiveness.
How does this apply to Hunter Skill placement?
How you setup your hunter skills can and will have an effect on how you play that character. It is minor, but it is the little things that count when you are going for a good completion time/ high score.
All of the hunter skills besides neutral + B (or whatever your hunter skill button is) can be used while moving. This means that if you want to continually move forward and deal damage you will likely want to put your strongest spells in left/right slot. This is so you can perform a short hop and cast the spell to eliminate the recovery time of the move. You can also use the Up or Down slot but press Up+Forward or Down+Forward while hopping to use the spell.
Neutral Slot
This slot can be BDC'd almost as easy as the down slot. All you have to do is perform the motions as you would with a Weapon BDC (attack; back-dash + down; repeat). With this in mind you may want to reserve this spot for spells that can benefit from this like Grando, Globus or Fulgur. Keep in mind however that you will have to stop moving when you use this skill in the air.
Left/Right Slot
This slot is the easiest to use while on the move. Because of this I tend to put Shanoa's more powerful spells here. Acerbatus is a good choice because it deals a lot of damage and hits multiple times making most enemies dead in just one casting. If you don't have Acerbatus then I would consider Ignis for this spot. You will want to get in close for all of the flames to hit. This slot can be BDC'd but the button combination is a bit more complex making it harder to do it consistently in the heat of battle. You perform it by pressing forward + B; back-dash + down; repeat.
Up Slot
This slot is difficult to BDC but you can move around and use the attack easily by pressing up/forward + B. I like to use Nitesco or Luminatio in this slot so that I can maintain my momentum when attacking. I also use the up slot to make precision attacks that need to be aligned at a certain height when neutral jumping.
Down Slot
This is everyone's favorite slot (pun intended). This slot is the easiest to BDC (just hold down and alternate between back-dash and B) and like with the up and left/right slot you can keep moving while attacking. I like to put Globus, Grando, or Fulgur in this spot depending on the stage.
My setup
*I mainly use the Hunter Skills like this with slight variations depending on the stage
B: Fulgur
^B: Luminatio/Nitesco
</>B: Acerbatus
vB: Globus/Grando
I. Those sweet, supple... back-flips
So you've decided you want to pick someone other than Soma.
Val-spamming through the levels has started to get old or you don't play Soma because he "takes no skill to play". You only have enough patience to max out one more character. So...
Who do you choose?
You could go with Alucard but he's just Soma light. You could go with Jonathan but you can find better ways to waste your time. You could pay for the privilege of grinding and pick up one of the DLC characters but you're broke. That leaves one other character for you to choose...
Soma
Seriously though, I've had plenty of experience with grinding. I have maxed out all of the weapons that provide stats for each of the whip users (I still have some retros to do but I'm in no hurry with those), I've maxed out Fuma as well and I have both Maria and Yoko nearly maxed so I know how long and tedious the process of grinding these subs/spells can be.
On to the topic at hand:
In my opinion the character that becomes the most rewarding and fun to play after maxing out is Shanoa and this is why:
Pros:
- Shanoa is one of the most well rounded characters in the game. Her weapon glyphs and spells are useful in many situations and she is adept at both close range and distance fighting. She allows for several different setups since she can equip both armor and female exclusive items; she can be a melee based character or a pure caster or a mixture of the two. She is very adaptable and can be built to suit any playstyle.
- Magnes points generally allow her to take the quickest and/or safest route through the level. The bosses on chapters 3, 5, and 9 also have Magnes points nearby that can be used to her advantage.
- Both Acerbatus and Globus deal tremendous damage when they are maxed out; they also happen to be very easy to level up do to their multi-hit nature. Acerbatus is has a wide hit-box and is great when up close and can one-shot many lesser enemies. If the enemy manages to survive the attack somehow, it may end up with the cursed status which will reduce its attack power. Globus is better suited for corridors and rooms where it can bounce around to maximize its damage output. Fill the room with this spell but try not to blind everyone with it.
- Lightning
. Get used to hearing Shanoa scream that over and over again because you should be using Fulgur on everything that isn't resistant to it. This spell is so handy that I don't have room to list all of its uses. Just know that it's one of the best fire-and-forget spells in the game; its auto-tracking, has high-damage output, hits multiple times and it comes out very fast with good range. This spell should be used as a preemptive strike against any enemy that is out of range of Acerbatus.- Much of Shanoa's strength lies in her versatility. She has the tools to manage anything that she runs up against. Her hand-to-hand weapons are both varied and unique because she can use them for both close range and distance combat. She is also unique in that her back-dash does not need to be canceled by pressing down to maintain a rapid series of attacks. You may still want to press down to control the distance you move backwards when you are back-dash cancelling.
- She isn't limited by the lack of a dive kick. All of the shenanigans you can pull of with it still apply to her. The only thing holding her back mobility wise, is the lack of a "Yorick" type maneuver (and to a lesser extent, R. Medusa) but the magnes points that are scattered throughout the levels make up for that a bit.
- She can equip Berserker Mail. This is very important and is the real reason that, IMO, she is the second best character in the game. Combine weapon/spell versatility, stage and character mobility, with general good play and Shanoa is only outclassed by Soma for overall usefulness and destructibility.
Cons:
- Really the only major thing that I can think of is that since Shanoa is a hybrid character,some of her more useful spells and weapon glyphs can be hard to obtain if you aren't a "lucky" person.
- Learning the right uses and situations for her attacks takes time but the same can be said for any character. The timing for back-dashing and back-dash canceling out of her weapon attacks can be tricky to learn.
In Summary:
I think that if you only choose one character to max out through grinding, you should choose Shanoa. I didn't use her very much at first but I still remember the first time I played with an extremely talented Shonoa player and I watched in admiration as she completely wrecked everything. Seeing how gracefully she destroyed the level prompted me to give her a try and I have loved her play-style ever since. This was even before Globus and Acerbatus came along! The addition of the DLC spells was just icing on the cake. Shanoa is a great character choice for anyone who likes having multiple options without sacrificing mobility or damage. She's the next best thing in this game.
II. A woman scorned
So you chose Shanoa. Now What?
There is another guide on the main page that will give you the details on many of the spells and weapons and how to find them, so I wont bother explaining the details here.
Which accessory do I use?
Assuming that you have two of each of these items:
Chaos Ring
Miser Ring (with enough gold to max them)
Appolonian/Artemisian Ring (or Sunstone/Moonstone)
Fools Tablet
How do you know which one to use and what are the benefits of each?
This subject is very debatable and a lot of the decisions are mostly based on your personal play style. I will do my best to explain how these items effect Shanoa and give my reasoning for using them.
Separating the girls from the ladies
Consider this:
Do you want to deal a lot of damage up front or do you want to deal more damage over time?
Now consider this:
Where do you spend most of your time? Playing the level or fighting the boss?
And finally, ask yourself this question:
Am I comfortable with using Berserker Mail?
All of these factors come into play when deciding on the items to use to maximize your setup. As I stated earlier, being able to use Berserker Mail is what really sets her apart from the other female casters. Equipping it is like adding dual Miser Rings to your chest spot that also boost the damage your spells do. Using Berserker Mail will also allow you more freedom with the accessories you choose.
I highly recommend that you get comfortable using it. I use Berserker Mail on every stage when I play solo but online I take it off until I'm satisfied with the connection and team. Lag in games can make you look stupid when you die; so can the more unsavory and reckless folks online.
As for the first two things I asked you to consider, the chapter you are playing will largely influence the answer. Playing online (especially with six player groups) will also vary these factors. When you are in a boss battle for example, having fast MP regen can be more beneficial at times and may actually allow you to do more damage over time, especially with the many multi-hit spells Shanoa has at her disposal.
Magic regen build vs pure stat build
This is a breakdown of the MP regen rates according to the Japanese Wiki (I will include the rates for non-Shanoa items as well for those of you who are curious about their rates):
http://dora_hd.wikiwiki.jp/?%CB%C9%B8%E6%C1%F5%C8%F7#e197a085
Sage Ring: 0.2/sec
Chaos Ring: 0.4/sec
Robe Decollete: 0.4/sec
Bishamon Raiment: 0.6/sec
Others:
Treant Soul (Maxed): 0.6/sec
Fuma Helm: 0.4/sec
Fuma Armor: 0.6/sec
All of these items stack.
To maximize your MP regen rate you would want to equip dual Chaos Ring, Bishamon Rainment and Robe Decollete. This will give Shanoa a bonus of 1.8/sec. This is more than enough to fuel your spells throughout the length stage and you'll be able to use them regularly for the boss battle.
If you are the kind of person who doesn't rely on your spells for the bulk of your damage, then Miser Rings are the item you will probably want to equip with Shanoa. The boost you receive with two of them (even without Berserker Mail) is more than enough to completely destroy most of the enemies throughout the levels in one or two hits (solo). You can also use Fool's Tablet for a large boost to many of your statsif you don't mind the poison effect. During boss battles you can still do consistent damage provided you have the right glyph equipped and you are adept at back-dashing out of her attacks.
A good balance of MP regen and damage output would include the Bishamon Rainment, Chaos Ring, and an Appolonian/Artemisian Ring (Berserker Mail or Robe Deco depending on what you like). You will have really good MP regen and the ability to kill most normal enemies without much trouble.
My setups are usually something like this:
A. Casual Friday
Weap1 - Lapiste (Sinestro Custos)
Weap2 - Lapiste (Dextro Custos)
Head - Holy Veil
Chest - Robe Decollete
Back - Bishamon Rainment
Legs - Sonic Boots
Acc1 - Chaos Ring
Acc2 - Appolonian/ Artemesian Ring
ATK - 70 (69)
INT - 25
HP Max - 325
MP Max - 128
MP Regen - +1.4/ Sec.
This is a well rounded setup that will give you great MP recovery speed while still being able to maintain good damage. You can add another App/Art Ring but I think that you'll find the MP boost from the Chaos Ring to be a little more useful for boss fights. The higher HP and MP will also allow you to take a few more hits and cast an extra spell or two.
B. Bitch on a rampage
Weap1 - Pneuma (Lapiste)
Weap2 - Pneuma (Lapiste)
Head - Holy Veil
Chest - Berserker Mail
Back - Bishamon Rainment
Legs - Sonic Boots
Acc1 - Fool's Tablet (Miser Ring)
Acc2 - Fool's Tablet (Miser Ring)
ATK - 40 (86) * + Hidden dmg modifier from Berzerker Mail*
INT - 29
HP Max - 285
MP Max - 108
MP Regen - +0.6/ Sec.
This setup is for those of you who want to eradicate everything with ease. Don't let the low attack value of Pneuma keep you from using them. Lapiste is stronger stat wise but, combined with Berzerker Mail and the weapon's multi-hit nature (especially with the combined wave attack), Pneuma is far more devastating on most bosses and enemies. Your low MPs and regen rate aren't such a big deal because everything should die with only one or two castings at most and anything left can be finished with your weapon. You can add Miser Rings in place of the Fool's tablet if you want to just go all out with your attacks; you will have to replace them if you are score running (Poison negates the no hit bonus). Practice dodging because with this setup you are dead on hit in almost all situations.
III. All of the right moves
If you are a player like me then you have a tendency to always want to be moving forward and maintaining momentum. Before the leaderboards were infested with exploiters, I used to do score runs. I liked trying to test myself and see how fast I could complete the levels with the best score possible. I managed to do pretty well and even managed to snag a few number one spots for a while. In doing this you begin to learn the fastest routes through the levels and how to deal with the enemies in the most efficient manner. With this in mind I want to address spell placement. By that I mean, how does one go about equipping their hunter skills and how the placement can influence the way you play? I'll also go over some other simple things you can do to improve your own runs both online and offline. Most of this stuff can be applied to all of the characters in some way.
One short hop away from victory
You have probably noticed by now that when you use a hunter skill or attack while grounded, in most cases your character will pause briefly while they execute the attack. If you want to maintain your forward momentum you need to get around this limitation and there is a very easy way to do this. You simply press the Jump button ever so briefly before executing your attack and you will perform a small hop off of the ground.
Being airborne while attacking with most weapons and/or hunter skills lowers or even eliminates the recovery time of the move. Practice doing short hopping so that you can always maintain your forward momentum while eliminating the enemies. Also, the moment you land from any jump (aside from long falls) you can make an additional attack. You can follow that with a back-dash and another attack to make a simple combo. With Shanoa specifically, you will want to practice performing a short hop and attacking with Weapon 1 and Weapon 2 before you touch the ground to maximize her effectiveness.
How does this apply to Hunter Skill placement?
How you setup your hunter skills can and will have an effect on how you play that character. It is minor, but it is the little things that count when you are going for a good completion time/ high score.
All of the hunter skills besides neutral + B (or whatever your hunter skill button is) can be used while moving. This means that if you want to continually move forward and deal damage you will likely want to put your strongest spells in left/right slot. This is so you can perform a short hop and cast the spell to eliminate the recovery time of the move. You can also use the Up or Down slot but press Up+Forward or Down+Forward while hopping to use the spell.
Neutral Slot
This slot can be BDC'd almost as easy as the down slot. All you have to do is perform the motions as you would with a Weapon BDC (attack; back-dash + down; repeat). With this in mind you may want to reserve this spot for spells that can benefit from this like Grando, Globus or Fulgur. Keep in mind however that you will have to stop moving when you use this skill in the air.
Left/Right Slot
This slot is the easiest to use while on the move. Because of this I tend to put Shanoa's more powerful spells here. Acerbatus is a good choice because it deals a lot of damage and hits multiple times making most enemies dead in just one casting. If you don't have Acerbatus then I would consider Ignis for this spot. You will want to get in close for all of the flames to hit. This slot can be BDC'd but the button combination is a bit more complex making it harder to do it consistently in the heat of battle. You perform it by pressing forward + B; back-dash + down; repeat.
Up Slot
This slot is difficult to BDC but you can move around and use the attack easily by pressing up/forward + B. I like to use Nitesco or Luminatio in this slot so that I can maintain my momentum when attacking. I also use the up slot to make precision attacks that need to be aligned at a certain height when neutral jumping.
Down Slot
This is everyone's favorite slot (pun intended). This slot is the easiest to BDC (just hold down and alternate between back-dash and B) and like with the up and left/right slot you can keep moving while attacking. I like to put Globus, Grando, or Fulgur in this spot depending on the stage.
My setup
*I mainly use the Hunter Skills like this with slight variations depending on the stage
B: Fulgur
^B: Luminatio/Nitesco
</>B: Acerbatus
vB: Globus/Grando
