|
|
Post by biggunns on May 10, 2012 15:47:34 GMT -5
Hi everyone
I'm new to this forum. I thought I'd share an observation for anyone after miser rings.
After exactly 248 Astarte kills I finally got 2 miser rings, both through solo runs. When I got the second ring I'd waited about 5 seconds before I opened the gold chest (for dramatic effect). Before I opened it something happened that I've not seen mentioned anywhere before: there was a chink sound and a small gold ring appeared next to Soma's head, and when I opened the chest sure enough there was a miser ring inside. Great.
Recently I was in a full group doing a Chapter 7 run for a Badelaire, which I 've still not got and is the only Alucard equipment I'm still missing. Everyone else I guess was probably after a miser ring. After the chest dropped it was opened immediately and no-one got a miser ring. But just before the screen faded to black I definitely saw a small gold ring appear next to the head of another Alucard player (although no sound effect this time). This is pure speculation but I think had the party waited just a few seconds before openning the chest the Alucard player would have gotten a miser ring.
|
|
|
|
Post by Squeezit on May 13, 2012 0:03:06 GMT -5
No offense intended, but it's more likely that it's just a glitch or pure luck.
|
|
|
|
Post by Iron Blue Arremer on May 13, 2012 4:59:58 GMT -5
What the...
|
|
|
|
Post by biggunns on May 13, 2012 6:15:36 GMT -5
No offense intended, but it's more likely that it's just a glitch or pure luck. The ring and sound effect occuring before the chest is opened was put in deliberately by the developer. Has anyone else seen it? It's entirely plausible that when it occured after the chest was opened that was nothing more then a glitch. Ok, no big deal, the game is glitchy. But there are another 2 explanations: the developer added an extra trigger for the ring AFTER(!) the chest has dropped, or it's a visual indicator the ring is in the chest but the player still gets it whether or not they wait to see the indicator. I've got 2 so no difference to me now, but if it's the former then the player who missed it that time probably gets to do 100 runs to get it again. Darn it. |
|
redfoxxie
That's the way
You like Rats ?
Posts: 62 
|
Post by redfoxxie on May 13, 2012 8:00:54 GMT -5
Even though this whole deal does sound like complete bull, let's play.
Okay, so you are saying that if you open up the box at a certain time, you get a Miser Ring. That, actually, most likely is very true. Now let me explain.
Most games have a thing called RNG value which determines "random things", such as drop rates. Different kind of changing values keep modifying it which usually are either things you can't see such as the value changing every frame you move, or something more global like score or.. time. It would be completely possible for time to be a factor in determining the RNG factor.
Now I've proved before that the time is -not- absolute for every player. You can finish the stage by having a small difference in the time for each player. Given enough lag, it can be quite a significant difference. Now if we'd go with a theory where RNG value would change depending on the time, it could create visual glitches such as your screen going "Oh you got Miser- ... Oh nvm" . Most likely the game only checks one persons RNG value to determine the chest contents anyway. But I can always be theoretic.
Now when it comes to the chest sounds. I've at least been able to trigger the box opening sound without opening up the box. One example of this would be using Mist Form (Alucard) and right after press the box open. You get box opening sound, but box doesn't open. Richter's kick functions similarly at times. Theoretically it could be possible an action like this could create a graphical error if the games goes through the script where it should give you an item, then goes like "Oh nvm you didn't open it.." . Just a theory though.
Now, having gotten 4 Miser Rings myself I can say I've never seen graphical mumbo jumbo or special sound effects when they drop. They do not even give that special sound effect you get when you gain a soul or a subweapon. Just the basic item ching sound. And I kind of doubt they would've added a trigger like this.
In a nutshell, I do believe time may have to do with what you get as a drop if it affects the RNG value though it may be affected by a multitude of other things such as walking, actions, or score also. I do not quite buy a developer would've added a trigger like this though I find it an interesting theory.
If possible to get a video or photo evidence of your phenomenas I'd be interested to see it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Iron Blue Arremer on May 13, 2012 11:53:41 GMT -5
The chest drops in this game are determined during the loading.
|
|
redfoxxie
That's the way
You like Rats ?
Posts: 62
|
Post by redfoxxie on May 13, 2012 14:29:14 GMT -5
Well that's that for that theory then *haha*
|
|
|
|
Post by biggunns on May 14, 2012 12:35:17 GMT -5
The chest drops in this game are determined during the loading. How do you know this? The only official information is the in-game monster/item compendium and what appears to be a credible official email from Konami Customer Support shared on the net saying gold chest contents are determined at the point the boss is killed and influenced by the luck of the player who gets the final blow. Everything else is speculation from no official source. Even hacking accounts give no conclusive answer. The only exact drop rates given from gold chests are boss souls, which you can see with gambler glasses. Using gambler glasses you can see that luck affects boss souls drops in the same way as regular enemies: 0.1 for 1 point of luck. It seems reasonable to assume luck affects rare items in the same way. You can observe during a game that drop rates for boss souls remain constant throughout the game unless luck changes. Check the monster compendium at the start of a game with gambler glasses and then check it any time after; there is no change to drop rates from increasing your score by killing enemies etc. Switch from non-luck gear to luck gear during a game and you can see the drop rate change in the monster compendium. You can observe luck affecting drop rates for one category of items (boss souls) during a game through the monster compendium and you can observe nothing else (time, score increasing actions etc) having an effect. No offence but if anyone wants to dispute a theory based on what is actually known then fine, but I can't see the sense of disputing one theory on the basis of another theory that is pure speculation; no official source, cannot be observed anyhow. You cannot debunk a theory with speculation. I'm arguing that the effect I saw was either: a) a visual indicator that a specific item will be in the chest and was trigger when the boss died b) a visual indicator that the item had just triggered and wasn't in there before c) a glitch that looked like a deliberate effect put in by the developer. I will omitt d) a hullucination, because I have no history of that, I was not on any medication and did not drink any alchohol at the time. Of course I could be lying, but what for? If anyone decides to wait 5 seconds to check then after 50 runs they would have added about 4 mins to the time spent doing runs. Big deal, I've so happy I've stolen precious time and ruined some lives. The Astarte death animation is unique. The painting in the background crumbling is still happening after the chest has dropped. No other boss has an effect still going on after the chest has dropped. I wasn't paying much attention then but maybe the effect coincides with the painting crumbling? I plan on doing some solo runs for a badelaire and will wait for the painting to crumble before openning the chest. If I see the effect again I will record this time. |
|
redfoxxie
That's the way
You like Rats ?
Posts: 62
|
Post by redfoxxie on May 14, 2012 13:16:16 GMT -5
If you're on 360 I could always come with you to help you out. Would make the runs that much faster. Bogus or not I'm still interested in studying this game and wouldn't mind wasting my "precious time" for something like this.
I'm personally quite sure it has to do with some sort of a lag-related graphical glitch but who knows really. Theories can only be proven by testing.
If you ever get any recorded material be sure to show it. Would be interesting to see.
|
|
|
|
Post by Iron Blue Arremer on May 14, 2012 17:16:51 GMT -5
How do you know this? The only official information is the in-game monster/item compendium and what appears to be a credible official email from Konami Customer Support shared on the net saying gold chest contents are determined at the point the boss is killed and influenced by the luck of the player who gets the final blow. Konami Customer Support doesn't know jackshit about the game, though, and the monster compendium does not show chest drops, but monster drops. And how I know it is described in this post. I think it doesn't add to your credibility that you specifically registered for this forum to post this thread and haven't posted anywhere else. |
|
